Re: Common theme harmonix321: Are you the same Batman that said cheating is a fact of life and we shouldn't expect marriages to last and us that do are just fooling ourselves?
Regardless, you're setting up a false dichotomy. Our feelings are our own, yes, but they are still dependent somewhat on our X's or STBX's, or we wouldn't be here. If recovery was as simple as reading a couple condescending paragraphs, we would be mere robots. The point is, we aren't robots, feelings are complicated, and the fact is what our spouses or ex-spouses do DOES matter. Yes, we shouldn't care what they do. But what we should care about and what we do care about are two different things. This may not be rational, but it is human. If we didn't care that our spouses or ex-spouses were with another person over Christmas, we would be inhuman. Especially for those of us for which this is a completely new and terribly experience.
Re: Common theme Trying2Hope: [quote author=C-Note link=topic=23023.msg213792#msg213792 date=1135344132">
You are Batman. If not, you've got me fooled. My feelings just squeez between my finger everytime I try to grasp them tight and control them. Maybe that's my problem.
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Hmmm ... I don't think it's a matter of "controling" your feelings. It's a matter of focus. That old saying, "Happiness is a choice," I think is true. Instead of trying to squeeze your feelings in, let them go.
I like your metaphor. So I'll extend it. When you're holding onto these terrible feelings, grasping and twisting to keep them under control, then there's no way anything else can fit in that hand. Let the bad feelings go and pick up some GOOD ones. Also, what's going on with your other hand?
Imagine how good it would feel to throw those bad feelings down the toilet, then pick up some of the old happiness you've left on the floor.
Don't know if this makes sense, but I truly believe that trying so hard to control your feelings only drains your energy.
Good luck.
Re: Common theme Trying2Hope: [quote author=harmonix321 link=topic=23023.msg213853#msg213853 date=1135360141">
Are you the same Batman that said cheating is a fact of life and we shouldn't expect marriages to last and us that do are just fooling ourselves?
Regardless, you're setting up a false dichotomy. Our feelings are our own, yes, but they are still dependent somewhat on our X's or STBX's, or we wouldn't be here. If recovery was as simple as reading a couple condescending paragraphs, we would be mere robots. The point is, we aren't robots, feelings are complicated, and the fact is what our spouses or ex-spouses do DOES matter. Yes, we shouldn't care what they do. But what we should care about and what we do care about are two different things. This may not be rational, but it is human. If we didn't care that our spouses or ex-spouses were with another person over Christmas, we would be inhuman. Especially for those of us for which this is a completely new and terribly experience.
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I believe that the average marriage experiences some kind of infidelity. People have a very, VERY difficult time being monogamous. That's the truth and it's supported by statistics everywhere. If you choose to believe that your spouse could never cheat on you, well, then I think you're just setting yourself up for a fall. Also, statistically, marriage don't last. 15% of marriages make it to their 50th anniversary, and 0% last forever (It seems either one spouse or the other dies. Pity.)
I strongly disagree with your idea about our feelings being dependent on someone else. Feelings come from within us. Feelings are our interpretation of what is going on around us. People don't make us feel, we choose to feel.
If our spouse does something horrible like cheat, then we can choose any number of ways to respond. Say Joe comes home and finds his wife in bed with another man. He can ...
A) Feel sad and blame himself for his lack of effort in the marriage.
B) Feel angry and beat the sh@t out of his spouse and her lover.
C) Feel happy because he's going to get the house in the divorce settlement.
D) Feel relieved because now he can find a good woman with bigger boobies and who is a better cook.
E) Feel depressed and jump off a bridge.
F) Feel horny and join in!
G) etc, etc, etc, etc.
People in the exact situation have chosen those exact emotions!
I suggest that feelings are a choice. If you don't choose how to feel, you're going to feel whatever way your subconscious mind decides. Think about it. Why are you choosing to feel the way you do? Is it because you can't help it, or is it because society tells you to, or is it in order to gain something else (like your stbx's attention)?
I know it's hard, especially at the beginning of such a trauma, to wrap your brain around this idea. It's taken me a lot of work to get this far.
Good luck on your own journey.
Re: Common theme harmonix321: [quote author=Batman link=topic=23023.msg213873#msg213873 date=1135363095"> I believe that the average marriage experiences some kind of infidelity. People have a very, VERY difficult time being monogamous. That's the truth and it's supported by statistics everywhere. If you choose to believe that your spouse could never cheat on you, well, then I think you're just setting yourself up for a fall. Also, statistically, marriage don't last. 15% of marriages make it to their 50th anniversary, and 0% last forever (It seems either one spouse or the other dies. Pity.)
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I don't want an "average" marriage. I'm not an average person.
[quote">
I strongly disagree with your idea about our feelings being dependent on someone else. Feelings come from within us. Feelings are our interpretation of what is going on around us. People don't make us feel, we choose to feel.
[/quote">
If a choice was made anywhere, it was to love our spouses through thick and thin when we decided to marry them. The consequences of them betraying that love are to some extent uncontrollable. There is no light switch in the brain that can turn off one's feelings for another person. This should be obvious.
[quote">
If our spouse does something horrible like cheat, then we can choose any number of ways to respond. Say Joe comes home and finds his wife in bed with another man. He can ...
A) Feel sad and blame himself for his lack of effort in the marriage.
B) Feel angry and beat the sh@t out of his spouse and her lover.
C) Feel happy because he's going to get the house in the divorce settlement.
D) Feel relieved because now he can find a good woman with bigger boobies and who is a better cook.
E) Feel depressed and jump off a bridge.
F) Feel horny and join in!
G) etc, etc, etc, etc.
People in the exact situation have chosen those exact emotions!
[/quote">
Anyone who can choose their emotions in that situation is not in love with their wife. The only thing you can choose in that situation is your actions (ie, whether to kick the crap out of the other man).
[quote">
I suggest that feelings are a choice. If you don't choose how to feel, you're going to feel whatever way your subconscious mind decides. Think about it. Why are you choosing to feel the way you do? Is it because you can't help it, or is it because society tells you to, or is it in order to gain something else (like your stbx's attention)?
[/quote">
It's because a huge part of my brain was given over to the loving of this person and it will take a great deal of time and effort to weaken the connections in my brain that are causing my emotions to be depressed and distraught. The reason you are feeling so peachy right now is not merely because you made a decision to feel peachy, but because enough time had passed, enough thinking had been done, and enough action had been taken for you to decide to not care about your spouse anymore.
Re: Common theme Trying2Hope: [quote author=harmonix321 link=topic=23023.msg213936#msg213936 date=1135385075"> It's because a huge part of my brain was given over to the loving of this person and it will take a great deal of time and effort to weaken the connections in my brain that are causing my emotions to be depressed and distraught. The reason you are feeling so peachy right now is not merely because you made a decision to feel peachy, but because enough time had passed, enough thinking had been done, and enough action had been taken for you to decide to not care about your spouse anymore.
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Well, I could choose to feel angry with you for insinuating that you know how I feel toward my ex-spouse even though you don't know me at all. I might say, "Your divorce is no more intense than mine was, a**hole!"
Or I could choose to feel pity for you because your argument seems to be that your emotions govern you rather than you govern your emotions. I could say, "You poor thing. I'm sorry that your life is so sad and that you have so many built up connections that you will be miserable for a long time."
Or I could choose to feel happy because you are a tough person and your tenacious attitude about marriage is a contribution to the human race! I might say, "Harmonix, you are AWESOME!!!! Thank you for reaffirming my faith in humanity!"
Or I could choose to feel bored and not respond to this post. I might say ... nothing. ;)
Or I could choose to feel eager, wondering which emotion YOU will choose as you read and/or respond to my thoughts on choosing what you feel.
Ok ... the emotionball is in your court. How do you choose to feel right now? Try choosing to feel a few differnt ways before you respond and see what happens. :D
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