Re: "Needing" attention from other men/women. ezydriver: [quote"> I then asked her if she felt like that was a good thing (to be insecure), and she said no. So that's a good thing[/quote"> PROGRESS!!
[quote"> but while she agrees being insecure is bad, she doesn't agree that having the need for attention from other men is bad. She hasn't reached that level of awareness yet[/quote"> Sounds like shes half way there. Perhaps an ultimatum from you would really get her thinking, and stick to it. Or is that just the worst advice ever on OJar?
Re: "Needing" attention from other men/women. GPFault: caterpillar:
I'm glad I got to read that. I'm sure there are at least some similarities.
Here's a question for you.
Rewind to where you were before, and let's say you hadn't learned what you learn now (so you were completely headed for an exact repeat of the events that occurred).
Had your wife found someone online named HumbleCatwoman who went through something similar and learned some things from it and as a result your wife wanted to go to counseling with you and explore the possibilities outlined here, do you think you would have listened? Or would you have had to learn the hard way?
I know this varies from person to person, and my wife, while very mature in some areas is typically very stubborn. When in the process of a previous addictive behavior that I recognized right away (drinking) she spent 99% of her time in the denial phase and only when she REALLY hurt someone (mainly herself and her daughter) did she finally accept that it could be a problem and decide to make a few changes.
Here's a better question. At the time of all of this, would you consider yourself a stubborn person? If someone, even your loving partner, implied that you might have an addictive behavior, would your first reaction be insult? "How dare you imply that I have an addiction!" Either way, do you think you could have heard that?
I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this, and I think only us trying will yield the answer. But hey, at least I'm getting this information while there's still a chance.
Re: "Needing" attention from other men/women. GPFault: [quote"> Perhaps an ultimatum from you would really get her thinking, and stick to it. Or is that just the worst advice ever on OJar?[/quote">
An ultimatum would definitely get her thinking, but it wouldn't solve the problem. It would force a decision on her, either to bury this need without fully understanding it, or sacrifice her family and explore a need without fully understanding it.
See the similarities in both cases? I think we need to understand it first.
Thankfully, she's willing to do that, although she's very guarded around this. She is convinced that the counselor will imply that she's "broken" for her "abnormal views" of being able to completely disassociate sex and emotion and because she feels it's safe to crave just pure sexual attention from other people.
So while she isn't going with the intention of "getting fixed", I'm really hoping she will be open minded enough to learn something about herself and, depending on what that is, how it could have the possibility of hurting her and her family if she doesn't decide for herself to do something about it.
But as I told her, this isn't just about learning about her. I want to explore myself as well and what's causing me to feel the way I do about things. Maybe I'll learn something that will help too. That's what it's all about.
Re: "Needing" attention from other men/women. MikeB: agree... probably an attempt to compensate for more or less repressed insecurity... maybe combined with feelings of inadequacy
Since she seems to be willing to acknowledge this (insecurity) as a problem... then you (two) need to find out where this insecurity comes from in order to approach the problem.
For example... did her father cheat on her mother (or vice versa) when she was young, was there some sort of (physical or psychological) abuse, did her parents show too little affection for her or something like that... were there negative experiences (like a previous failing marriage or a failed career) she might feel she has to compensate for...
It is probably an attempt to compensate for a lack of something... (affection or success - possibly during childhood or adolescence)...
Maybe if you can find out what she's trying to compensate for (the reason for her insecurity) you might be able to convince her that this behaviour is not going to make the insecurity go away for good... and more: that it will probably seriously damage any relationship she's ever going to have and that it's the wrong way to deal with her issues... because in the long run it will probably even increase her insecurity / feelings of inadequacy...
In many cases where people have sex with various partners to compensate for insecurity.. after the sex (and after the endorphines have gone) they're left feeling empty and somewhat worthless... and hence the insecurity / inadequacy - issues are not resolved by this kind of compensation but rather enhanced...
Re: "Needing" attention from other men/women. GPFault: MikeB:
Thanks. A lot of people say that it's good to learn where issues ultimately come from. But that knowledge alone is just a step, and while I can definitely see the possibility of us taking that step, I never really understood how to take that information and use it to take the next step.
Your post at least shed a little light on that. Most information I've read stops at, "we need to understand what causes us to want or need things". That's not enough in this case. I love hearing examples of how that information might, in this case, be used as a tool to solve a problem.
I dunno though:
[quote"> Maybe if you can find out what she's trying to compensate for (the reason for her insecurity) you might be able to convince her that this behaviour is not going to make the insecurity go away for good... and more: that it will probably seriously damage any relationship she's ever going to have and that it's the wrong way to deal with her issues... because in the long run it will probably even increase her insecurity / feelings of inadequacy...[/quote">
Man, that's a HUGE step. I mean, I would consider myself to be extremely mature, extremely self aware, and extremely willing to look inside myself and accept issues. If anyone has a chance of being prime and able to be able to do something like that, it should be me...
But I don't even know if _I_ could take that information, tie it to my behavior, and say "Geez. I guess that will never make it better so I should just stop." I would probably say, "Okay, I'm insecure due to X, Y, and Z. And that evidently is causing me to want Q which my partner doesn't like." Doing Q won't fix my insecurity, but I still like Q a LOT.
I just don't know if that would be enough to make me stop wanting it.
It would take an amazing amount of self awareness, but it would also take something else... something that I'm not even sure that I have, not even to mention whether or not my wife has it. I don't know what "that" is though. What trait or mindset will allow someone to take information like this and learn the lesson "the easy way" rather than have to learn it "the hard way"?
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