Re: Is it all the other person's fault? katelyn: FMT- I feel the same way. But after seeing so many people pointing the finger it forces the question and puts doubt in my mind that it is I that am "right".
SNK - EXACTLY my point! All of my man's friends think I'm psycho, and all my friends think he is psycho. They hear and see one side only. We both fight for our right to be right at all costs to the point of alienating the other. Is this what love is? In the end shouldn't making each other happy be the only concern? I mean, isn't that really the whole point?
I bet that if people took on this attitude there would be much less divorce...
However, then the words of my best friend ring in my head: "If you aren't going to fight for your rights, who will?"
Re: Is it all the other person's fault? trapped: I highly doubt there is anyone here, or anywhere, that would say they are blameless or faultless to marital strains/problems. However, there's one paramount difference between the majority of us and our so's. They walked away...we didn't.
They gave up. We didn't.
They saw it as a dealbreaker. We didn't.
So in that sense, yes...they are to blame.
Obviously this isn't true to every case but insofar as addressing your question...that's why people say their so is at fault. Not that they're to blame for everything.
That's my interpretation at least.
Re: Is it all the other person's fault? Phyxius: [quote author=trapped link=topic=31001.msg309230#msg309230 date=1151996772">
I highly doubt there is anyone here, or anywhere, that would say they are blameless or faultless to marital strains/problems. However, there's one paramount difference between the majority of us and our so's. They walked away...we didn't.
They gave up. We didn't.
They saw it as a dealbreaker. We didn't.
So in that sense, yes...they are to blame.
Obviously this isn't true to every case but insofar as addressing your question...that's why people say their so is at fault. Not that they're to blame for everything.
That's my interpretation at least.
[/quote">
I used to feel the EXACT same way. The operative phrase here is USED TO. But in the end, I had to come face to face with a simple question: Would I have told my best friend to leave a spouse like me? Unfortunately, I would have to answer "YES." It wasn't a pretty realization, (and it took me FOUR FRACKIN' YEARS to get there) but it is the truth.
Very few of us are blameless when it comes to the collapse of our marriages - no matter how much we may try to lay it off on the other person. And trapped - for every one of us that got left, there is a walkaway who believes in their heart that they had no other choice.
The next post is an article from my "home" BBS that may shed some light on the subject...
Re: Is it all the other person's fault? Phyxius: [size=10pt"> [color=red"> I Know I Have My Faults, Too, But. .."(Paying Lip service.)[/size">
We are not apt talk about our own defects, that is for other people to do, yet many people do consciously want to be fair, reasonable, and open about their mistakes and indeed believe they are.
You may often hear the statement: "He (or she,this is not limited to either gender) does not admit his mistakes," but I think it would be rare {if at all"> for you to hear anyone say: "I never admit my mistakes".. unless you are sitting in a counselors or therapists office. Even then it would be a somewhat rare client who is so forthcoming with this addmission. People do like to picture themselves as being reasonable enough to admit their mistakes and shortcomings, but many people(and many of us on the BB are guilty of this as well...we are not immune)) can admit them only in a very vague way(and in a very general sense). I
ndividuals can find it most difficult to be open, frank, and honest in discussing specifically what they did to help create their problems or make them worse. Ego can make it very difficult to be that candid. What people(and often us)do instead is pay lip-service to recognizing their faults and shortcomings, usually in the context of either attacking someone else's specific shortcomings or listing their own assets.
We have an met the kind of person who says :
"I know I have faults, too, but. .." and then he follows up with a long list of the specific crimes that the other person has committed or with a description of his own wonderful deeds. Or, he may say something like:"I know I am not perfect, but. .." or "Of course, no one is perfect and I am willing to admit to my mistakes, too, but. ..," and then comes the list of the other person's specific imperfections or his own excellent features.
So in a situation like this what can you do to handle the matter if you are on the recieving end ?....
Well it will usually not pay for you to start defending yourself with respect to the list of specific faults and shortcomings you are being charged with. Even if you can remember them all and successfully defend yourself, more faults and imperfections will be added to the list when you are through with your defense. So is fairly useless to even try.
It may, however, be a good idea to take to make notes on the faults and keep them for future reference as valuable information about you, since they have been observed by a person(usually your SO or Spouse) who knows you well...(and it is quite true that although we know the effect our spouse's behavior has on us, we very rarely notice the effect of our behavior on them.)
(continued next post)
Re: Is it all the other person's fault? Phyxius: Another "less than a solution orientated" way of reacting to this type of situation would be to start yelling back at him about the things he has done that you feel are destructive. (defensiveness) Such competitions in "Who can heap more accusations upon the others head" are futile and serve merely to release more stressor chemicals in into the bloodstream.
You will find that the person who makes a habit of hiding behind a general admission of imperfection usually becomes highly uncomfortable when asked to be specific about his own shortcomings. The reason it is so difficult for him to give examples is that he himself is afraid of looking at what he does specifically to contribute to the problems. He/she tries to fool himself and you into thinking that he is reasonable and objective,willing to admit his own mistakes. It is as if he is saying: "Look how fair I am, I admit my own faults first, so now I have permission to tear strips off you". Actually, of course, it is unfair to be general(or to generalise) about one's own mistakes and specific about those the other person has made.
You may want to follow the what I suggest here and say, "Please give me some examples of your faults," ...the other person, due to his fear of seeing or admitting his ownn specific shortcomings, may be unable (or unconsciously unwilling) to give you such examples. You can then ask him if he feels it is fair for him to pretend that he admits his faults when, in fact, he can give no examples of what they are.
Often unable to find a single specific fault in himself, the attacker will resort to a "fault" which, far from being the result of honest se1f scrutiny, merely constitutes a renewal of the attack, such as,
"Well, my main fault is that I have treated you too nicely,"/ "My main fault is that I let you get away with too much," or even "My fault is that I married you in the first place!"(Often said in a contemptuous and sarcastic manner.) In other words, the attacker continues to pretend that he is willing to admit to his own faults, but the "faults" he mentions are backhanded ways of keeping up or escalating the attack. This must be pointed out to the attacker.If he recognizes the validity of the point,a step has been taken toward better communication between the partners.
If the attacker does not recognize-or claims not to recognize the fact that the "admission" of his own faults actually constitutes a renewed attack, then what he claims to be his faults should be noted. The attacker could then be asked what he thinks would happen if the "faults" were shown to a third person whom he trusts and who would be asked "Are these statements honest admissions of shortcomings?" If the attacker says that an unbiased third party would answer yes then he is either consciously dishonest or he distorts emotional reality to such an extent that he is in definite need of professional help.
If the attacker responds to the challenge with sarcasm, such as by saying "Well, I am sure you can name a long list, so why should I bother?" then he is to be called on the fact that sarcasm is an unfair tactic. If he denies having been sarcastic, you ask him to repeat his statement ( which usually has the effect of either removing the sarcastic aspect or making it more obvious) , or you point out that theissue is not whether you can see his faults, but whether he can. (Beware of hostility in tone of voice here! )
A good communication exercise for both parties could be to reverse the phraseology and say "1 know you have faults, too, but I. .." and then list one's own shortcomings, provocations, inconsiderations, etc. If done in good faith, this exercise can be highly valuable, mainly because it prevents each party from playing the innocent victim..
"I know i have my faults,but........
It's fine to say "but" after you say "I know I have my faults" as long as the "but" is followed by " I'd like you to know that I am sincerly doing my very best to rectify them." Work on your own faults first long before you try to get them to work on theirs...lead the way by example.
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